Икономика

Лаик, какъв е източника на това, което си постнал?

Колкото и странно да звучи, тежестта за спасяването на световната икономика ще лежи върху Китай. Независимо от кризата, засега има само някои признаци за забавяне на тази икономика. Следната статия дава насоки за някои възможни проблеми.

By Langi Chiang and Zhou Xin
BEIJING, Dec 10 (Reuters) - China's exports and imports
shrank unexpectedly in November as the world's fourth-largest
economy slowed in a startlingly abrupt way in response to the
global credit crunch.
The drop in exports from year-ago levels was the largest
since April 1999, while the decline in imports was the steepest
since monthly records kept by bankers began in 1993.
Other Asian export power houses, including South Korea and
Taiwan, had already reported a drop in shipments last month as
the shock to confidence that followed the collapse of Lehman
Brothers in mid-September reverberated through the world
economy.
Economists had expected China's exports to rise 15 percent
and imports to be up 12 percent compared with November 2007. But
the data showed exports fell 2.2 percent from a year earlier and
imports dropped by 17.9 percent.
"Global demand for Chinese products is vanishing," said Gene
Ma, an economist at China Economic Monitor, a Beijing
consultancy. "Secondly, the credit freeze in importing countries
has made it hard for Chinese exporters to sell abroad."
China's leaders wrapped up a three-day strategy meeting on
Wednesday by setting steady growth as their top objective in
2009, pledging to ramp up public spending and cut taxes.
"At present, China's economic operation is facing greater
difficulties," a state radio report on the meeting said.
"Downward pressure on the economy is increasing."
Because imports fell more sharply than exports, China's
trade surplus actually soared to an all-time high of $40.1
billion last month, eclipsing the previous record of $35.2
billion set in October, the customs administration reported.
A plunge in the price of oil and other commodities cut
China's import bill, but economists said the drop also reflected
spreading weakness in home-grown demand as businesses and
consumers battened down the hatches.
"It's just a start. Exports and imports will continue to
fall in the coming months, probably until next June," said Zhang
Shiyuan, an analyst with Southwest Securities in Beijing.

UNEMPLOYMENT WORRIES
The government has been unusually frank in acknowledging its
worries that the economic downturn will cause unemployment to
soar, jeopardising social stability.
Export firms employ tens of millions of rural migrants. With
factories closing by the thousands in southern China, many of
these workers are heading home much earlier than usual for the
Lunar New Year, which falls in late January.
"With few policy options with which to revive exports,
Chinese authorities are understandably focusing on measures to
boost domestic demand and push forward with infrastructure
initiatives, in an effort to absorb some of the migrant
workforce," Jing Ulrich, head of China equities at J.P. Morgan,
said in a note to clients.
The government launched a 4 trillion yuan ($586 billion)
stimulus plan on Nov. 9 to boost infrastructure spending over
the next two years and the central bank followed up on Nov. 26
by slashing interest rates by 1.08 percentage points -- four
times its usual margin.
A burning question among economists is whether Beijing will
go one step further and engineer a drop in the value of the yuan
to give exporters more of a competitive edge in global markets.
The Chinese currency has risen sharply in value this year
against a basket of currencies of its main trading partners.
The central bank raised eyebrows last week by allowing the
yuan to weaken modestly against the U.S. dollar. Many economists
cautioned against reading too much into the move, but others are
not so sure.
"The government is likely to launch new policies soon to
help the export sector, and that may include a change in
exchange rate policy," said Zhu Jianfang, an economist with
CITIC Securities in Beijing.
In another sign that the economy has simply run into a wall,
the statistics office reported earlier that wholesale price
inflation collapsed to 2.0 percent in the year to November from
October's reading of 6.6 percent. [ID:nPEK42337]
Economists polled by Reuters had expected a rate of 4.4
percent.
"The situation is quite severe. We are slipping into a
deflationary recession risk pretty fast," said Isaac Meng, an
economist with BNP Paribas in Beijing.
Reports from the leadership's economic meeting made no
mention of a growth target for 2009, but state media have said
Beijing was determined to "protect eight" -- a reference to the
8 percent growth rate widely thought necessary to create enough
jobs for the millions entering the workforce every year.
The economy expanded 11.9 percent in 2007, its fifth
straight year of double-digit growth. But the pace has slowed
sharply in recent months and the World Bank is forecasting just
7.5 percent growth in 2009.
(Reporting by Eadie Chen, Zhou Xin, Langi Chiang and Simon
Rabinovitch; Writing by Alan Wheatley; editing by Stephen
Nisbet)
((alan.wheatley@thomsonreuters.com; +86 10 6627 1270;

Папата по отношение на кризата:
By Philip Pullella
VATICAN CITY, Dec 11 (Reuters) - Pope Benedict on Thursday
branded the global financial system self-centred and
short-sighted and lacking in concern for the common good of the
world's people, particularly the poor.
The pope made the accusation in his annual peace message,
"Fighting Poverty to Build Peace", in which he also called for a
"common code of ethics" in a globalised world that would narrow
the gap between the haves and the have nots.
Benedict, who has recently issued several sharp criticisms
of banking practices, said the negative aspects of the
globalisation of finance were plain for all to see.
"Objectively, the most important function of finance is to
sustain the possibility of long-term investment and hence of
development," he wrote in the message for the Catholic Church's
World Day of Peace, celebrated on Jan. 1.
"Today this appears extremely fragile: it is experiencing
the negative repercussions of a system of financial dealings --
both national and global -- based upon very short-term thinking,
which aims at increasing the value of financial operations and
concentrates on the technical management of various forms of
risk," he said.
"The recent crisis demonstrates how financial activity can
at times be completely turned in on itself, lacking any
long-term consideration of the common good," he said.
A short-sighted mentality meant global finance had lowered
its objectives to the point where its capacity to be a stimulus
for long-term growth and jobs had been seriously weakened.
"Finance limited in this way to the short and very short
term becomes dangerous for everyone, even for those who benefit
when the markets perform well," he said.
Benedict, whose message is traditionally sent to heads of
state, government and international organisations, has already
criticised the world's banking system since the current crisis
began, but this was his most comprehensive critique yet of the
global financial crisis.
In the 17-page message, the pope also called for disarmament
and a fight against world hunger and attacked some campaigns to
reduce birth rates in order to help development, particularly
those that promote abortion.
"There are international campaigns afoot to reduce birth
rates, sometimes using methods that respect neither the dignity
of the woman, nor the right of parents to choose responsibly how
many children to have," he said.
"... Graver still, these methods often fail to respect even
the right to life. The extermination of millions of unborn
children, in the name of the fight against poverty, actually
constitutes the destruction of the poorest of all human beings,"
he said.
(Editing by Tim Pearce)

Изглежда политическите спекулации понякога вземат връх дори и в щатския сенат. Решението за bailout plan за авто индустрията не успя да събере необходимата подкрепа и ако държавната администрацията не вземе мерки автоиндустрията е изправена пред фалит. Това е сериозна грешка от страна на републиканците и още по голяма грешка на Буш ако не отпусне съответните средства от TARP програмата. Дали разумът ще надделее е спорен въпрос, но този казус допълнително ще утежни икономическата картина пред новия президент. Все пак надеждата винаги умира последна....

WASHINGTON -- A frantic, last-ditch attempt to forge a relief package for the auto industry collapsed in the U.S. Senate, dealing a giant blow to the immediate hopes of the Big Three.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada suggested the $14 billion wouldn't be revisited until January. "It's over with," he said.

The talks, which appeared close to a deal several times, broke off due to a sharp partisan dispute over the wages paid to workers at the manufacturing giants.

General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which have said they can't last the year without federal aid, both hope the White House will now relent and allow the Treasury to provide emergency loans from the $700 billion Wall Street fund, people familiar with the matter said. Mr. Reid also urged that option.

To date, the administration has resisted the idea. But "that may be where they go next," said Sen. John Thune (R., S.D.). There is always a chance Congress will act sooner if one of the companies totters on the brink, although that possibility appears remote.

GM, in a statement, said it is "deeply disappointed" that an agreement couldn't be reached. GM had told Congress it needs $4 billion by the end of the month or it might not be able to keep its operations going. The company added that it will "assess all of our options to continue our restructuring and to obtain the means to weather the current economic crisis."

GM's European division Friday said it was very disappointed that Congress failed to reach an agreement, but said it is continuing to operate as normal while cutting costs aggressively.

The package's difficulties hit Asian markets, which had posted gains this week in response to broad government efforts to help the world economy. In Tokyo, the Nikkei Stock Average of 225 companies closed 5.6% lower, while shares in Hong Kong fell 5.5%.

Mr. Reid said the Senate would be in recess, and would stand in pro forma session until January, when the new Congress will be convened with stronger Democratic majorities.

White House spokesman Tony Fratto Thursday voiced disappointment at the collapse in the Senate. He said no decisions have been made, but stressed, "we will evaluate our options in light of the breakdown in Congress."

GM has already hired some of the U.S.'s biggest names in restructuring to consider whether to file for bankruptcy protection, said several people familiar with the matter, in what would be one of the largest and most controversial filings in U.S. history. GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner has been reluctant to embrace the concept, fearing it would scare off potential buyers, and he "still believes the company can't and shouldn't file," but decided in the last few weeks to hire the outside advisers, said a person familiar with the matter.


Richard Wagoner
After a marathon day of negotiations, top Democrats appeared close to a deal that would toughen the bailout package in a bid to raise Republican support, which had proved an insurmountable stumbling block. The focus of talks was on seeking commitments to restructure the industry's debt load and bring labor costs in line with wages paid by Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co. in the U.S., among other things.

But those talks fell apart after Republicans insisted that wages reach parity in 2009. Sen. Bob Corker (R., Tenn.), who emerged as a pivotal player this week in negotiations over the industry's future, said negotiators were close to striking a bipartisan compromise.

Democrats were willing to reach parity, but not on such a swift timetable. Mr. Reid declared talks at an impasse. "We have not been able to get this over the finish line," he said. "We have worked and worked...that's just the way it is."

With the talks in shambles, Mr. Reid moved late Thursday to bring up the White House-backed compromise, which would have expedited billions of dollars to the industry and created a strong government role in its restructuring. That effort failed on a 52-35 vote, as allies of the industry failed to win the 60 votes needed to end a Republican filibuster on the measure.

Sen. Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, complained that Republicans had attempted to turn the wage issue into a political matter about organized labor, instead of making it an "an economic issue." With the economy in recession, he suggested it wouldn't be fair to force auto workers to accept wage cuts in 2009. "I'm deeply saddened. But more than saddened, I'm worried," he said. "This will fail, we will go home, and I'm afraid our country will be in deeper and deeper trouble."

The collapse of the talks represents a major defeat for three companies and an auto union that once wielded immense political clout. Even after two appearances in Washington by the GM, Ford and Chrysler CEOs, and a show of solidarity with the UAW, the auto makers were unable to convince many skeptical lawmakers to change their minds and support a bailout.


Only a handful of Republicans in the Senate had been willing to support the rescue package. Some raised concerns about government intervention in the marketplace. Others demanded the bill be strengthened to exact concessions from the industry.

Congress also remains bitter over the handling of the $700 billion financial rescue, which lawmakers on both sides feel they were pushed into approving and are displeased with the results.

"There is a lot of resistance," said Mr. Thune earlier in the day. "It's going to be really hard for anything to get to 60."

Both President Bush and President-elect Barack Obama had urged senators of their respective parties to pass a bill.

On Wednesday, the House approved the White House-backed package, kicking the issue into the narrowly divided Senate, where balky Republicans have the power to block action. The bill's limping progress was dealt a big blow Thursday by the Senate's top Republican, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky. He came out against the initial White House-backed package saying it doesn't require auto makers and their unions, suppliers, creditors and dealers to make changes needed to return to a sound financial footing.

"We simply cannot ask the American taxpayer to subsidize failure," said Sen. McConnell, suggesting the Big Three would have to find a way to survive without congressional help.

GM has already been preparing for the worst. Its management recently tapped bankruptcy veteran Harvey Miller of the New York law firm, Weil Gotshal & Manges LP. Mr. Miller worked on the bankruptcies of Lehman Brothers, Bethlehem Steel Corp. and Marvel Entertainment Group.

Others involved in the matter include restructuring veterans Jay Alix, Evercore Partners' William Repko, Blackstone Group's Arthur Newman and Martin Bienenstock at the law firm of Dewey & LeBoeuf LLP who worked on the Enron bankruptcy.

Mr. Alix, who has been in semi-retirement for several years, founded the Detroit-based turnaround and advisory firm AlixPartners and worked with GM on a number of high-profile cases in the 1990s, such as National Car Rental.

Evercore has been advising GM for many months, including on the failed merger with Chrysler LLC. Blackstone is focusing on GM's multibillion-dollar voluntary employee beneficiary association plan.

GM and its dealers are meeting late this week to discuss launching a new advertising campaign to spark sales. GM will also discuss plans for its Saturn division. One option includes putting the division into bankruptcy protection, as it is technically a separate entity.

GM executives are worrying that suppliers could tighten credit terms, and the government could swiftly recall its loans.

The company's 13-member board is subjecting Mr. Wagoner to deepening scrutiny. The board is now meeting three times per week and receiving constant updates on the financial situation.

"This is an urgent situation and we need to deal with it," Kent Kresa, a GM director since 2003, said Thursday before the Senate deal failed.

Mr. Kresa said GM management was constantly caught off-guard by declines in the U.S. auto market. While executives were continuously revising sales projections, the managers never fully understood how bad the situation could get, he added.

As GM operates near its minimum-required funding options, Mr. Kresa said the board continues to "keep all options open."

At a recent meeting, members decided to dismiss the idea of filing for Chapter 11 protection, at least for now, reasoning that if the company were in bankruptcy court, people wouldn't by its cars.

The collapse of the deal raises the stakes for Chrysler and its majority owner, Cerberus Capital Management LP. Lawmakers had called for Cerberus to put more money into the company, but Cerberus maintains it can't because the bylaw of its investment funds prevents it from putting more than a small percentage of its investors' funds into any single investment.

Chrysler Chief Executive Robert Nardelli told Congress the company would be unable to pay suppliers and employees if it doesn't get loans by the end of the month. Chrysler has acknowledged it has engaged bankruptcy experts in case it is forced to file for Chapter 11 protection.

Suppliers to the company are already nervous, and several have asked Chrysler to start paying cash for parts when they are delivered, Chrysler officials told the Associated Press. So far, Chrysler has declined the requests, they said.

—Neal E. Boudette and Matthew Dolan contributed to this article.
Write to Greg Hitt at greg.hitt@wsj.com, Jeffrey McCracken at jeff.mccracken@wsj.com and John D. Stoll at john.stoll@wsj.com

Ами ето го българския път:



Снимал съм го в Пампорово. Я да видим докъде води той? Ами то си пише:



И какво се извозва по този път? Ами ето какво:



А какво остава по пътя на българската икономика? Ами ето какво:



А няма ли друг път, който да не води до разруха? Ами има - на двадесет километра на юг, пак в Родопите, но в Гърция.

И в Гърция населението свикна да живее на кредит - докато в края на 2000г. то е дължало 16,969.7 млн. евро, вече в края на октомври 2008г. задълженията му достигат 116,181.8 млн. евро или за по-малко от 8 години те са се повишили почти 7 пъти.

Също така в края на 2000г. правителството, домакинствата и фирмите изън финансовия сектор са имали общо задължения за 188,511 млн. евро или 154.9% от БВП на Гърция, а в края на 2007г. задълженията им достигат 431,786.2 млн. евро или 189.2% от БВП на Гърция.

В края на октомври 2008г. домакинствата и фирмите изън финансовия сектор са имали общо задължения за 247,989.9 млн. евро.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pls/portal/url/page/SHARED/PER_ECOFIN
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/en/statistics

Greek crisis deepens as S&P downgrades sovereign debt
15 Jan 2009
www.telegraph.co.uk

The ongoing global financial and economic crisis has, in our opinion, exacerbated an underlying loss of competitiveness in the Greek economy," said the credit-rating agency. The country was placed on negative watch just days ago.

The moves comes days after a €2.5bn (£2.2bn) debt sale by Greece that was entirely issued at short-term rates, much of it in three-month notes. Such an action is highly unusual for wealthy countries tapping the sovereign bond markets. It suggests that Athens fears that investors may be unwilling to purchase long-term bonds in the current climate.

The interest spreads on Greek 10-year bonds over German Bunds have jumped to 234 basis points, the highest since the launch of the euro. This has major consequences for a heavily-indebted state such as Greece, which needs to raise some €48bn this year.

Simon Derrick, currency chief at the Bank of New York Mellon, said Greece is playing a hazardous game by betting that spreads will fall back over the next three months. Mr Derrick claimed that by failing to bite the bullet now, the Greek treasury is concentrating greater "roll-over risk" later in the year. Such a manoeuvre could lead to a major crisis if the global credit markets remain under stress.

S&P said Greece's public debt would rise to over 100% of GDP by 2011 without major spending cuts, up from 94% this year. "We believe that repeated failures to stick to budgetary plans and a long-standing over-reliance on the revenue side, aggravated by regular deficit-increasing one-offs and expenditure slippages, have led to structural weaknesses in fiscal management," it said...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/4242070/Greek-crisis-deepens-as-SandP-downgrades-sovereign-debt.html

И в Гърция населението свикна да живее на кредит - докато в края на 2000г. то е дължало 16,969.7 млн. евро, вече в края на октомври 2008г. задълженията му достигат 116,181.8 млн. евро или за по-малко от 8 години те са се повишили почти 7 пъти. (Реализъм)

Приемам данните за коректни и коментирам, че задлъжнялост на ниво 10 000 € на калпак ( поне 30 000 € на домакинство ) е доста висока за моите представи. Разбирам, че една част от тази стойност се дължи на заеми за купуване или построяване на къща и бих искал да видя показателя изчистен от този вид заеми.

През последните 10 години нашият най-висок семеен заем е бил за 10 000 € , с 4-годишно изплащане от 240 € на месец - това е било напълно поносимо и заемът е бил погасен без проблеми. От няколко години провеждаме една консервативна политика на ограничаване на задълженията с кредитни карти на нива под 3 000 € и тяхното постепенно намаляване с цел анулиране, за сметка на преминаването към схемата планирани спестявания + разходи от тях.

Така че семейството ми не е сред тези, които теглят нагоре средното аритметично за страната, напротив.

За съжаление значителен ръст от края на 2000г. до края на октомври 2008г. са отбелязали именно и потребителските кредити, а не само жилищните кредити както показват данните на централната банка на Гърция.

В края на 2000г. населението в Гърция е дължало потребителски кредити за 5,697.9 млн. евро, а в края на октомври 2008г. сумата вече достига 39,327.9 млн. евро или за по-малко от 8 години потребителските кредити са се повишили 6.9 пъти.

За сравнение в края на 2000г. населението в Гърция е дължало жилищни кредити за 11,271.8 млн. евро, а в края на октомври 2008г. този вид кредити достигат 76,853.9 млн. евро или за по-малко от 8 години жилищните кредити са се повишили 6.8 пъти.

http://www.bankofgreece.gr/en/statistics

.. вече ме успокоява частично. Дългосрочните заеми за жилище са традиция у нас и този вид задлъжнялост не ме тревожи особено. Да се инвестира в собствена къща, която ще остане и за потомството - това е една сравнително "здравословна" причина за задлъжнялост.

Ще си позволя да дам тук линк към един скеч на известни английски комици.
Комици,комици, ама казват че историята си е точно такава,каквато я показват...
Новини от Давос: причината е в "excessive consumption, risky borrowing and inadequate regulation in the United States"

http://vbox7.com/play:6747cdfd&ef=1

Това е дори още по-добро !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWDdcD-1xoo&feature=related 1ва част

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScwGBNMH428&feature=related 2ра част

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgc4zm3XrBc&NR=1

Хи-хи-хииии! Тук става интересно!
Да дойде Надя да го киментира !

Виждам че зад кораба на Обама пляска злополучният Гордън Браун с англ флаг в ръка. Англ лира (паунд) преди 3 год беше около 3 лв за паунд, вчера беше 2.10 лв

Знае ли някой че Англия (която е Великобритания без Уелз и Шотландия) по територия е не много по-голяма от България 130,281 km2 с население 50 млн.? In 2003, it had a population density of 383 people per sq km compared with Wales (142), Northern Ireland (125) and Scotland (65). England has the highest population density and Scotland the lowest. This is mainly due to many parts of Scotland being unsuitable for people to live.
Така е. Шотландия е с гъстота на населението равна на тази на България, но това е защото северната й част е неподходяща за живеене.

От какво се препитава това население (а то се препитава сравнително добре)?
Сложен за отговор въпрос. Англия като че ли не изнася нищо свое. Но това е само на пръв поглед, защото англ производства са не в Англия, а по света.

Ето тук прочитам нещо интересно:http://forum.investor.bg/viewtopic.php?t=12362&r=29

The USA is Britain’s largest single export market, taking $57b of UK goods in 2007

https://www.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/ukti/appmanager/ukti/countries?_nfls=false&_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=CountryType1&navigationPageId=/usa

Въпреки, че в Англия нищо не се произвежда, Англия купува евтино от Азия, ЕС и Африка и го препродава на САЩ, по едни стари споразумения. Точно такива неефективни споразумения може да се прекратят от Обама.

gigatev написа:Виждам че зад кораба на Обама пляска злополучният Гордън Браун с англ флаг в ръка. Англ лира (паунд) преди 3 год беше около 3 лв за паунд, вчера беше 2.10 лв

Знае ли някой че Англия (която е Великобритания без Уелз и Шотландия) по територия е не много по-голяма от България 130,281 km2 с население 50 млн.? In 2003, it had a population density of 383 people per sq km compared with Wales (142), Northern Ireland (125) and Scotland (65). England has the highest population density and Scotland the lowest. This is mainly due to many parts of Scotland being unsuitable for people to live.
Така е. Шотландия е с гъстота на населението равна на тази на България, но това е защото северната й част е неподходяща за живеене.

От какво се препитава това население (а то се препитава сравнително добре)?
Сложен за отговор въпрос. Англия като че ли не изнася нищо свое. Но това е само на пръв поглед, защото англ производства са не в Англия, а по света.

Ето тук прочитам нещо интересно:http://forum.investor.bg/viewtopic.php?t=12362&r=29

The USA is Britain’s largest single export market, taking $57b of UK goods in 2007

https://www.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/ukti/appmanager/ukti/countries?_nfls=false&_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=CountryType1&navigationPageId=/usa

Въпреки, че в Англия нищо не се произвежда, Англия купува евтино от Азия, ЕС и Африка и го препродава на САЩ, по едни стари споразумения. Точно такива неефективни споразумения може да се прекратят от Обама.

А какво щеше да стане със света, ако ги нямаше тези гадни империалисти...
Нали опитахме без тях?! Нали?!

А аз, според Гигатев, съм била фанатичка...
Боже, Боже! Аз фанатичка!!!
А той?! Той какво е?!
Прочетете внимателно какво пише...

Само бан му е майката - и по АйПи - вие поне знаете как се прави ...

Това е само част от рецептата. Пълната рецепта:

Първо е бан
после ебан

Това е класика и при опитните групови изнасилвачи. Най-напред трябва да се запуши устата на жертвата с кърпа.

Таки написа:Това е само част от рецептата. Пълната рецепта:

Първо е бан
после ебан

Това е класика и при опитните групови изнасилвачи. Най-напред трябва да се запуши устата на жертвата с кърпа.

а Ригас is supposed to be or not to be...жертвичката, дето е била изнасилвана...

.. лакът уста ..

Realistka написа:

а Ригас is supposed to be or not to be...жертвичката, дето е била изнасилвана...

Времето на първата модерация и нейните запушвания на усти, наистина не е по вкуса на Таки. По неговата категоризация той тогава е бил кравичка

.. че форумната природа не търпи вакуум ...

Но политическата природа е поставила даже праг: вакуум под 4% - вън от Парламента!

That is the question, дорогие товарищи!

chocho написа:Само бан му е майката - и по АйПи - вие поне знаете как се прави ...

Taki писа: Отсъствието на контратези е много вредно за един форум, който се нарича "свободен"

Бих добавил: Вредно е за ВСЕКИ форум. Не мога да разбера що за форум е това - всички да са на един акъл, да си поддакват един на друг и да нахокват и най-после изхвърлят всеки, който си позволява да мисли/говори другояче. След което да злорадствуват хе-хеее,изхвърлихме го!

Има мн забавни форумни случки, но...в тази тема (икономика) не им е мястото.

Таки написа: политическата природа е поставила даже праг: вакуум под 4% - вън от Парламента!

Ти па докога ще плачеш на чужд гроб!